These two fish are the same species according to the IUSA Board.
First off, I don’t envy the IUSA Board job, but I don’t understand it at times either and am curious to hear your opinion after you hear the following about both catches. I am proud to have been accepted for a number of records and it is always a good feeling to see your name on that page. I hope that after reading these posts and learning better how to submit your application your name will have its place on that list as well.
Both of the divers in the above pictures are friends of mine and I mean no disrespect to them or the IUSA for bringing up the following points, I’d just like some clarification and your opinion.
Consider the following before making your comments on which fish should be the record?
1.
The top fish was speared in the Western Indian Ocean by Brad Thornbrough,
The bottom one by Joseba in Tahiti in the Pacific Ocean thousands of miles away. Photo courtesy of (http://tuamotu-bluewater-spearfishing.com/id14.html)
2.
Brads fish was speared with a Pole spear.
Josebas with a Gun
3.
Brads fish was speared in November of 2010
Josebas fish was speared in December of 2010
4.
Brads fish weighed 49 lbs
Josebas fish weighed 55 lbs
If Brad submitted his record before Joseba, even if it was in January after both fish had been speared, who should be given the record?
Are these really the same fish?
What do you think?
16 Responses to “Spearfishing World Records: Who’s record is it?”
Brad should have been given a certificate even though he held it for only a month. I also think that IUSA should consider a separate category for pole spears because that is a whole different level of skills. Great job to both spearos! Extra kudos to brad for landing it with pole spear! Amazing fish!
Hey Cam I am guessing these fish are the Plectropomus laevis, called commonly blue spot coral trout here in Aus. We get colour variations of our blue spot coral tout here that makes it hard to believe they are the same species but indeed they are. Some of the Blue spots i have shot here vary from jet black to strawberry red, some with bars some blotchy. The juvinile of the species here in Aus can be white with black tiger strips on it which is comonly called the chinese footballer trout. These are all the same species.
Some of the blue spots over here get well above 30kg (66lb) but we have a restriction of taking them over 80cm. It is not uncommon to swim over patches of reef here and see a number of fish bigger than both of those fish pictured just milling around the reef. Our restrictions come because of the ciguatera risk implicated with this species here
If Brad’s record was submitted and complete first then it should have been given to him at that time. If Josebas record was submitted during the same time as Brad’s, Josebas should have the record. In the end Josebas has the larger fish and of course he has the record.
Is it the same fish? Who knows? They for sure do not look the same but stranger things have happened.
End the end the larger fish get the record.
The heaviest fish should get the record and i’m willing to guess it was shot in much deeper water. Tahiti is a difficult place.
I think I agree with Paul, pole spear requires a different skill set. But my vote goes to joseba, based on weight alone. Either way those are a couple of monsters!
Maybe I`m missing something but I don`t see a problem. Its clear cut.When Brad shot his it was the record.
Josebas broke it and has the new record.
Where`s the problem???
Damn fine fish.
Weight was actualy 46.4 lbs. I am fairly certain it beat out the existing record(at the time) by a pound or two. But I lost out on the record because I didn’t get the application in before the record was beat again, and this time by a much bigger fish! Congrats Yoseba, awesome fish. Next time I won’t wait to send in the application. Landing this fish on a polespear is something I am proud of and it would have been nice to have held the record, even if just for a few days!
First of all, those fish do not look the same. I know some fish have variable coloring, but those two are WAY different.
Secondly, if Brad had submitted his paperwork before the second guys, it should be reviewed and approved first. Even if for a short period of time.
Finally, gun v. polespear doesn’t matter. Until YOU start a polespear WR association. Sounds like a great idea.
ChuckD, Spearing Mag
Paul smith has nailed it on the head separate categories for pole spears and guns every body is happy!
I agree with Paul. If he held it, he held it – 5 minutes or 1 month.
If an olympic swimmer breaks a world record in a heat, then they go on the board – even if Michael Phelps smashes their time in the next heat.
Brad shoult get it.
Plectropomuspessuliferus.
Known as Roving Coral Trout. 2 subspecies. Uncommon. Feeds on other fish. Generally red with blue spots. Found from the Red Sea to Fiji.
Plectropomus laevis (Lacepède, 1801)
Blacksaddled coralgrouper
1. All world records should be processed and ratified according to when their applications were received, not when they were taken.
2. From the pics and not knowing the details of the biology of these fish, it seems the two are completely different fish! Or am I on hallucinogens.
3. Should definitively have a separate category for pole spears.
In the old days (back in the 70′s) here in the Virgin Islands we had categories for record catches.. ie 1.) Pole Spear/Hawaiian Sling, 2.) Standard gun – no breakaway, and 3.) Open class which included Guns with reels and/or breakaway equipment (I called it the Harpoon Class) 8>]
We also recognized any “largest overall catch as an “All Tackle/Rig” Record.
The local (and national) Game Fishing club(s) handled this by line strength.
My opinion – They should have both been recognized and certified as records according to their rules – Brad’s catch – if only for the short time – he should have gotten a certificate.
The governing agency should adapt some sort of classification system and recognize catches made with pole spear and Hawaiian Sling as either a category record and/or an “All Tackle” record
I tried to run this through the U/W Society of America’s program way back when I was their Spearfishing Records Director.. You know the rest of the story!
if brad had apply for the WR in time he should had it , till the day Joseba broke it with a more weight one .
Pole spear wr board would be a great thing i think .
common Cam !
this coral trout WR , Plectropommus Laevis , is far away to be an achievement for this species , cause in the same location in french Polynesia 100+ up to 130 Lbs were already land several time but never claimed for any record ..went directly in thekitchen ! haha.
Joseba speared it @ 26 meters deep ..in fact the purpose was to chum it in his mind haha!
then we stopped him informing him was a pending WR !lol !
With the way the IUSA Board is set up now it seems Brad would have the record for a short period, then when Joseba’s paperwork was processed the record would go to him.
I also believe that there should be different categories based on equipment used. Carl Butler (above) has a really good breakdown on how these categories might be determined.
they are both bluespot coral trout, no doubt about that. if you think otherwise, you know nothing about fish. as for world record. ha ha they are TINY. sad thing, should have let them go. we live in australia and over here they are banned to kill/keep over 80cm as at this size they all turn female and hence, more babies if the bigger ones are left alone.the reason the look different, is beacause the depth of the water they spend most of there life in, with the redder the fish being meaning that it comes from deeper. the juveniles are yellow and white stripped, commonly called footballer trout. they only change markings when stressed or when they become the dominate(biggest) bluespot of that area. this is all true have caught probably 50 000 of them being a pro trout fisherman.
btw,
i have caught them way bigger,
good fishes though